i understand that one of the spliter groups from the watchtower believes/believed that jehovah was satan.. a bit like the gnostics etc..
1 Chronicles 21:1,"And Satan stood up against Israel,and moved David to number Israel"
2 Samuel 24:1,"And again the anger of Jehovah was kindled against Israel,and he moved David against them, saying,Go,number Israel and Judah."(ASV)
Maybe this is why they came to that conclusion?!
>subject: fw: presby.
minister's commentary on bro.
russell.
This Presbyterian minister claimed about CT Russell, "
In 1914 he completed work on the first epic motion picture: "The Photo-Drama of Creation" 15 years before any other sound pictures were produced." On page 51 of the publication,"Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose",published by the WTS,this comment is made, "Then Pastor Russell conceived a daring and elaborate educational venturefar ahead of the times.Motion pictures were just becoming popular,so,recognizing in this medium an effective means of reaching masses of people in a comparatively short time,Russell began the preparation of the "Photo-Drama of Creation.....So,the Society was really pioneering in the field of sound film and embarked on the project with full confidence of its success.The results of their pioneering efforts in this medium manifested God's spirit on this undertaking."
This Presbyterian minister sounds like he was getting his information straight out of a WTS publication!And the obvious inference is that the Photo-Drama was a revolutionary invention,quote,"far ahead of the times" that was achieved only through Jehovah's direction.
What was so revolutionary about the Photo-Drama of Creation? According to the same WTS publication,pg.51,"The entire project included picture slides as well asmoving pictures to be synchronizedwith phonograph records in the form of recorded talks and music"
However,was the WTS really the first to develop this method of adding sound to an existing moving picture?
http://hem.passagen.se/filmljud/talkies2.htm
The level of sophistication achieved by these pioneers was startling. The following description by inventor Léon Gaumont of the Chronophonograph of 1902 clearly illustrates this capability.
"Several methods of connecting the apparatus were patented by our organization. One uses two small shunt dc motors of almost the same power and supplied by the same current source. The armatures of these motors contained the same number of sections, and each section of one armature was connected with a corresponding section of the other armature and in the same order. Consequently the first armature turned at the same angular displacement as the second. The first armature controlled the phonograph and the second the projector. Synchronization was obtained by adjusting the speed of unwinding of the motion picture film to the speed of the disk recording...Synchronization of sound and image was perfect, provided the simple precaution was taken of placing the first image in the projector picture gate and at the same time the needle at the extreme start of the disk." 4
Since 1902, Léon Gaumont had been demonstrating promising prototypes in France. He showed himself to be one of the individuals most committed to the idea that talking films would succeed. His persistent efforts to profit from popular, sound film entertainment culminated in the commercial premiere of the Chronophonograph in 1907 at the London Hippodrome.5 The Motion Picture Patents Company, with its vise-grip monopoly on the American film industry, took the Chronophonograph seriously enough to license it exclusively for the United States. Within a year, Gaumont was supplying film shorts containing opera, monologues and dramatic scenes.
Norton, Whitman and Fitch: The Cameraphone
Another major player in this game was E.E. Norton. He was formerly the mechanical engineer for the American Graphophone Company (known to us by the name of Columbia Phonograph Company, a venerable firm currently owned by the Sony Corporation). Norton invented the Cameraphone, and with James A. Whitman and attorney Francis Fitch founded the Cameraphone Company. They began leasing equipment to exhibitors by the Summer of 1908.7
The Cinephone
Will Barker's Cinephone was first brought here from England in March of 1909. It was one of the simplest and cheapest systemsavailable. It too was a lip-sync playback mechanism. There was no link between the sound and picture equipment. Barker placed the playback gramophone in the corner of the shot with a speed indicator clearly in view while the players mouthed to the playing record. Later, when the film was shown to an audience, an identical gramophone, also with an indicator, was placed on the stage. The projectionist had a control dial for the gramophone and all he had to do was ride herd on matching the two indicators. With the aid of a quick starting double spring projector, he could have the show in sync during the head leader and before the first image.
So,the inference that CT Russell was far ahead of his time with his Photo-Drama of Creation does not appear to be supported by the actual facts! Frankly,I fail to see what was so revolutionary about the PD of C being able to synchronize moving pictures with phonograph records in the form of recorded talks and music , when similar technology had already been invented earlier.
Morning Glory
has anyone else ever noticed that there is no watchtower in scripture as part of any particular teaching but there is prominent use of watchtower in dungeons and dragons type games and forms of witchcraft including spells involving watchtower?
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/watchtower_%28magic%29.
and msn search for watchtower alone & with magic spell or occult or witchcraft.. ct russell was a 33rd degree freemason ( illuminati) nutcase who read books by guys that measured the lengths of the halls in pyramids to foretell the future by.
Lt,you said
"The Crown with a Cross at an angle, like that, is also used by other Christian organisations that have no Masonic connection. This is my whole point. The symbol is not exclusively Masonic"
It may be true that some more recent religious organizations do use the cross and crown symbol. However,it could be asked,"Do they also incorporate other symbols that are Masonic symbols? If CT Russell had used the cross and crown as his only symbol,the connection would not be so powerful. However,the truth is that he also used the pyramid,the winged sun-disk,the two pillars of Solomon in his invitation to the Photo Drama of Creation,the knight in armour,(all Masonic symbols)as well as language common to Masonry.Truthseekers might find all this more than just coincidence!
Morning Glory
has anyone else ever noticed that there is no watchtower in scripture as part of any particular teaching but there is prominent use of watchtower in dungeons and dragons type games and forms of witchcraft including spells involving watchtower?
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/watchtower_%28magic%29.
and msn search for watchtower alone & with magic spell or occult or witchcraft.. ct russell was a 33rd degree freemason ( illuminati) nutcase who read books by guys that measured the lengths of the halls in pyramids to foretell the future by.
Lt,
The last link http://www.rootsweb.com/~srgp/flaghold/flag056.htm
you posted shows a picture of the crown and cross as incorporated into the Knights of the Golden Eagle organization. The crown and cross symbol used by this organization does not resemble Russell's choice for his Watchtower.I don't know if you were inferring that this link was providing a picture of a Masonic Knights Templar symbol,but in any case,it is not;and this is also acknowledged on that link itself.
As the following link further verifies,the crown and cross symbol of the Knights of the Golden Eagle is upright,while the crown and cross symbol of the Masonic Knights Templar of York Rite is on an angle. It is this latter crown and cross symbol that the early Watchtowers resemble.
http://users.erols.com/kgeeaglemiller/knightsofthegoldeneagle.home.html
Regarding the 2nd link http://cemeteries.wordpress.com/2006/09/01/cross-and-crown/
that you posted of the Knights Templar crown and cross as found in cemeteries, we note again that this true representation of a Masonic KT cross ison an angle within the crown.
Incidentally,you said in your post,"Firstly, I'm not disputing that some higher ranking Masons use the symbol.
However... the Masonic version of the crown and cross is most usually placed within a Maltese cross. Does Russell use this?"
However, this same link says the following,
"The Knights Templar version of this symbol is sometimes set within a Maltese cross. Or you will find it near other Masonic symbols..."
I really appreciated your first link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_and_Crown
showing the Bible Student's crown and cross,as it appears on their original banner and also on the cover of the early Watchtowers.The bay laural wreath that surrounds this cross and crown comes through so clearly in this picture!.You know,somewhere in the back of my mind,I know I've seen that same wreath on the logo of some other organization,but I just can't recall which one it is!
Morning Glory
has anyone else ever noticed that there is no watchtower in scripture as part of any particular teaching but there is prominent use of watchtower in dungeons and dragons type games and forms of witchcraft including spells involving watchtower?
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/watchtower_%28magic%29.
and msn search for watchtower alone & with magic spell or occult or witchcraft.. ct russell was a 33rd degree freemason ( illuminati) nutcase who read books by guys that measured the lengths of the halls in pyramids to foretell the future by.
has anyone else ever noticed that there is no watchtower in scripture as part of any particular teaching but there is prominent use of watchtower in dungeons and dragons type games and forms of witchcraft including spells involving watchtower?
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/watchtower_%28magic%29.
and msn search for watchtower alone & with magic spell or occult or witchcraft.. ct russell was a 33rd degree freemason ( illuminati) nutcase who read books by guys that measured the lengths of the halls in pyramids to foretell the future by.
Lt,
You said,"Again I state that you are concentrating on Masonic Knights Templarism." This is true and there is a good reason for this! This is because the cross and crown symbol as well as the knight in armour symbols as found on the early Watchtowers bear resemblance to the Masonic Knights Templar symbols; specifically the Knights Templar organization affiliated with the MasonicYork Rite organization,and also the Masonic Order of Demolay organization.Your reference to the apparantly non-Masonic Knights Templar organization called OSMTH proves nothing because the symbols CT Russell used are not patterned after any of the symbols associated with OSMTH,to my knowledge. The whole theme of this discussion centres on the possible association of CT Russell to Freemasonry. Your bringing in information that is irrevelant tends to confuse the issue.Daystar,
You said this,"The crux of the matter, in my mind, is that just because someone uses symbols, terminology, etc. most frequently associated with a certain group, does not automatically make that person a member of that group." You are entitled to your opinion,as I am entitled to mine.That is the nice thing about freedom of speech!
Morning Glory
has anyone else ever noticed that there is no watchtower in scripture as part of any particular teaching but there is prominent use of watchtower in dungeons and dragons type games and forms of witchcraft including spells involving watchtower?
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/watchtower_%28magic%29.
and msn search for watchtower alone & with magic spell or occult or witchcraft.. ct russell was a 33rd degree freemason ( illuminati) nutcase who read books by guys that measured the lengths of the halls in pyramids to foretell the future by.
LT, you said, "Yup - the Knights Templar are not exclusively Masonic, either."
Would you elaborate on the other organizations the Knights Templar are affiliated with? In the meantime,give this following Masonic source some attention;
http://www.tngrandyorkrite.org/grandcommandery/whatiskt.php
What is Knight Templary?
The fourth, and last, of the York Rite Bodies of Masonry, Commanderies of Knights Templar serves as the crowning glory in completing the Christian Path towards Masonic Light. This is the only recognized Masonic Body that has religious connotations, since it is based on the Christian Religion and virtues. As a consequence, while not all Masons will become Knight Templars, every Christian Mason should to complete his Masonic journey. Today's Knight Templar is a man dedicated to the living Christ, and the defense of the virtues contained in the practices observed by all true Christians.
You may also want to consider the information in the following Masonic links;
http://www.templarhistory.com/masonic.html
A Potential Candidate for Masonic Templarism, must be a member of the Craft Lodge, and Royal Arch Chapter. In some jurisdictions it is required that the potential member must also be a member of the Cryptic Rite.
http://www.knightstemplar.org/
The Grand Encampment of Knights Templar
of the United States of America
is the national governing body of the Knights Templar,
a Christian-oriented fraternal organization and
an integral part of the
Morning Glory
has anyone else ever noticed that there is no watchtower in scripture as part of any particular teaching but there is prominent use of watchtower in dungeons and dragons type games and forms of witchcraft including spells involving watchtower?
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/watchtower_%28magic%29.
and msn search for watchtower alone & with magic spell or occult or witchcraft.. ct russell was a 33rd degree freemason ( illuminati) nutcase who read books by guys that measured the lengths of the halls in pyramids to foretell the future by.
A few persons posting on this thread appear to go as as far as acknowledging that CT Russell
used occult symbols and terminology in his publications,but that this did not link him necessarily to the Freemason family of organizations.
"
Further, the symbols in question used by the Watchtower are used by a number of occult groups, not just the Masons."
It is true that the symbols of the winged sun-disk,the pyramid are not used exclusively by Freemasons and these symbols actually trace back to the Egyptian Mystery Religion.
However,there does seem to be at least one symbol that Russell used on his Watchtower magazine that is strictly connected to a Masonic symbol.This is the Knight in armour in the upper RH side of the front cover of the older Watchtowers.For the purpose of showing the "knight in armour" on the front cover of the early Watchtowers,I will use this link;
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/dirtywatchtowersecrets.htm
This "knight in armour" symbol does not trace back to any symbols found in Egyptian mystery religion,but is more identified with the Knight's Templar Masonic organization.
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/templarchapter/
Interestingly, the crown and cross symbol on that picture of the Watchtower also bears resemblance to a Knights Templar logo,and is really a 2nd example of a symbol chosen by CT Russell that is not traceable back to ancient Egypt.
Any thoughts?
Morning Glory
has anyone else ever noticed that there is no watchtower in scripture as part of any particular teaching but there is prominent use of watchtower in dungeons and dragons type games and forms of witchcraft including spells involving watchtower?
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/watchtower_%28magic%29.
and msn search for watchtower alone & with magic spell or occult or witchcraft.. ct russell was a 33rd degree freemason ( illuminati) nutcase who read books by guys that measured the lengths of the halls in pyramids to foretell the future by.
The lyrics of this song would probably remind most viewers of a refrain coming from a Kingdom Hall.Not so! Isn't it strangelycoincidental how the JW's and Masons praise the same god!!
http://altreligion.about.com/library/texts/macoy/bl_masonicmanual6.htm
"Now those that are worthy,
Our toils who have shar'd,
And prov'd themselves faithful,
Shall meet their reward.
Their virtue and knowledge,
Industry and skill,
Have our approbation,
Have gained our good-will.
We accept and receive them, Most Excellent Masters
Invested with honors, and power to preside;
Among worthy craftsmen, wherever assembled,
The knowledge of Masons to spread far and wide.
ALMIGHTY JEHOVAH!Descend now and fill
This lodge with thy glory,
Our hearts with good will' Preside at our meetings,
Assist us to find
True pleasure in teaching
Good will to mankind.
Thy wisdom inspired the great institution,
Thy strength shall support it till nature expire;
And when the creation shall fall into ruin,
Its beauty shall rise through the midst of the fire."
Morning Glory
joel rosenburg was on tv a few minutes ago talking about eisenhower's background.
he mentioned that his father left the religion after the end of the world did not happen in 1914 and that his mother continued.
then he mentioned that when he was sworn into office, he had his hands on a bible published by jehovah's witnesses.
Slimboyfat asked,"
I wonder, was his mother alive to Witness all this?"
Answer is Yes!
http://www.kancoll.org/khq/1945/45_7_eisenhower.htm
IN June, 1945, Dwight David Eisenhower, supreme commander of the allied armies in Europe, returned to the United States for the first time after the victory in Europe. As the executive who welded more than five million men and women into a unified force, and as a great general, he had received world acclaim. In London, Paris, Washington, New York, West Point and Kansas City the highest honors were bestowed upon him. On the 21st he came home for a visit with members of his family, including his mother and four brothers. He stayed in Abilene two days and was welcomed in a celebration that demonstrated the pride and affection of his fellow Kansans.
For a picture of his mother welcoming him,check out the rest of this link,towards the bottom.
